As new technology arises, so do new opportunities for expression, empathy, and empowerment. Our guest today, Alton Glass of GRX Immersive, shares how he’s making the most of these opportunities and helping others do the same through educational programs designed to help diverse creators take advantage of virtual reality and other emerging forms.
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Additional Links:
• Epic Games / Unreal Engine Spotlight on GRX Immersive's Courses
Episode Transcript
Charlie Melcher:
Hi, I'm Charlie Melcher, founder of The Future of StoryTelling, and it's my pleasure to welcome you to the FoST podcast. There's no doubt that recent advancements in technology are changing storytelling at a pace that we've never seen before. However, with the arrival of every new digital tool also comes the need to pause and consider important questions about equity and inclusion. Who's able to tell their stories in these emerging forms, and who's been left out of the conversation? How do we ensure equal access to the latest developments in digital media as well as the knowledge on how to use them?
Our guest today, an incredibly talented storyteller, Alton Glass, is working on addressing these questions. Alton's the founder of GRX Immersive Labs, a studio that is tackling contemporary issues through immersive projects such as TIME Magazine's installation The March, about the 1963 March on Washington, where Dr. Martin Luther King Jr gave his famous I Have a Dream Speech. Or POV, Points of View, a sci-fi VR series that explores AI and law enforcement.
Additionally, Alton is creating an educational program to help ensure that the diverse media makers of the future are able to thrive as leaders, creators, and innovators in virtual reality and other emerging technology platforms. I'm excited to talk to Alton today about his journey from a filmmaker to a VR creator and how he's working to make these new tools available to every aspiring storyteller. Please join me in welcoming Alton Glass to the FoST podcast. Alton, welcome to the FoST Podcast. It's great to have you here today.
Alton Glass:
Thank you. Thank you for having me on.
Charlie Melcher:
So I wanted to ask you about when you realized you were a storyteller. When did that start for you?
Alton Glass:
Oh, man. I mean, how far you want to go back? I would say it really started when I was a latchkey kid. I think I was probably six or seven years old, and back then we used to come home by ourselves with a key. I couldn't imagine my kids doing that at this age now. I used to be home by myself, and I didn't have video games all my friends had in elementary school. So I would turn on the TV and I would watch a NASCAR race, and I would go get a old big cassette tape and I would put my thumbs in the little holes and I would pick a car and I'll use my imagination to play video games. And then after that, I started drawing and then writing and became a real storyteller using my imagination. I started writing comics and things like that at a very young age.
And then I said one day I saw a movie called Five Heartbeats, and I just loved the performances, and I was like, Last Dragon, Carl Wash, Cooley High. Things like that really inspired me. And I said, ma, I want to know how to do that right there. And I did a job as an extra, it was this TV movie and I was fascinated. And that's when I said, you know what? I didn't know that... I thought an actor was the one that made movies. But then when I started talking to people on set, they were like, no, that's the director right there, and they're the ones that make the movie. And that's when I switched from wanting to become an actor to directing and writing. And that's what I've been pursuing since I was probably 15.
Charlie Melcher:
So it started early.
Alton Glass:
Yeah, I was very fortunate to get on set and I was raised have my life in Georgia, so we didn't have a lot of production, so I had to really, really read newspapers and find like, "Hey Ma, take me here and audition for this and let me become a production assistant on this." But that was the transition for me.
Charlie Melcher:
And then what was the first real movie you made or story you made in film?
Alton Glass:
In film, I started off as a camera operator, and that's how I learned how to shoot. Because I was directing music videos first, but I knew I wanted to transition into movies. I raised some capital to do my first independent feature film called The Candy Shop, I call it my most terrible but wonderful film I ever made. Because it was just get it done by any means. So I made this movie called the Candy Shop with Omar Gooding and Guillermo Diaz, and I loved it and I hated it at the same time. But I think the best feeling was when I went to Blockbuster and Hollywood video, and I'm dating it now, when Hollywood video was booming and blockbuster, and I took pictures and I saw all the facings of my film on the shelves. And to actually see people walk in, pick it up off the shelf, go to the checkout line, it was the most amazing feeling as a filmmaker. And I was like, I'm committed from here on out.
Charlie Melcher:
Then you made a move to going from two-dimensional storytelling to working in virtual reality and get excited about the opportunity to tell stories in 3D. What motivated that?
Alton Glass:
So I ended up directing several independent films. Someone introduced me to this company called Blacklist Digital. I was in post-production on the film, and they were doing this camera test at their facility, and they put me in a headset at a NASCAR race, which was actually full circle. And I was like, wow, I grew up watching these to spark my imagination, and I felt like I was there and I was like, what is this? And they were like, this is virtual reality. And they were like, if you really interested in it go check out this expo. And I went to the expo and I was just blown away by all the different experiences, the community, and I started learning VR back when you had to stitch everything manually. It was tough. It was going back to school again. I had to become a lab rat.
I even had the intern with companies who was already doing VR, and it was starting all over again. I'm a director, but now I'm like, okay, I'll go pick up your case. I'll help put together this camera. I didn't really care. It was like, I want to learn this and I want to know what I can do with it. And that's what helped me eventually land agency clients and start producing virtual reality experiences. Did one for Toyota and then it just started to continue to grow. And then I say, you know what? I think now it's time for me to shift. I made some money in the space and I said, let me shift over to invest back into the narrative storytelling side.
And that's when I made my first immersive short called A Little Love, which was about a young girl who makes a birthday wish to spend more time with her mother when her mother goes back to work and she wakes up inside of her daughter's dollhouses, like this little toy. And I made a short film and that's what brought my work and helped me really, really solidify what GRX Immersive Labs is, which is an immersive storytelling platform for XR content, immersive educational experiences.
Charlie Melcher:
Before we get into your work with education, I wanted to ask you about the experience of having gone from a director working in more traditional film and television two dimensions, and then shifting to working in virtual reality and any of the insights or challenges that came to you from that experience of doing both.
Alton Glass:
So I had to learn how to think spatially. That was the first challenge for me. And then I had to learn that it was no longer about directing the attention, but choreographing someone's attention and how I use all the different elements and senses that we have. So I had to really understand how to leverage every opportunity I had, whether it was sound haptic or temperature, and understanding all light. How do I use lighting experience to guide your attention somewhere? So I had to start to think about a lot of more details, but that also was very rewarding because it was that challenging. So it made me start to think about why is someone here and how do I keep them here? And I'm going to bring them into this experience, onboard them in a great way and offboard them too. So that's what's been different about going from 2D traditional storytelling to immersive storytelling. And I think as we move into the future you can no longer just say immersive, everything has to be automatically immersive.
Charlie Melcher:
You then became known for doing some really high quality virtual reality work, and now as you described, you're starting to move into a space of education and helping to share what you've learned with others. Tell us a little bit about your educational platform.
Alton Glass:
Yeah, so over the course of time I've learned that education and storytelling to me, are one in the same, it all starts with the narrative and what shifted it to also training was when I worked on a project called The March with TIME Magazine and executive produced by Viola Davis and her company JuVee, and Julius Tennon and Riot. And there was a company that did all the visual effects and things called Digital Domain, and that's when I was introduced to Unreal Engine made by Epic Games and they make Fortnite, things like that. And we were doing motion capture, we were doing photogrammetry, scanning characters, all original wardrobe. It was just amazing to go that deep into the details because TIME Magazine, they're a journalistic business where everything has to be accurate to the detail truth.
Charlie Melcher: And the piece makes you feel that you are there part of the march and you're absolutely there with him as he delivers that speech. Alton Glass: Oh yeah. I mean, you forget, when we were at the exhibit, people were putting their hands up, they were shouting, they were reaching out, they were coming out crying because you got to think some people actually were there during that time period, and some people watched it on TV during that time period when it was happening. And you were able to literally walked down and amongst a crowd of over 200,000 people and feel that energy during that period and understand what these people came to March for, which at the end, Dr. King challenges you to use your voice now. And Viola Davis, her voice is throughout the piece, just really championing that voice in that light. And then we had an audio experience before that, so it's a full on exhibition. Charlie Melcher: This is when you first got exposed to working with the Unreal Engine, and how did that affect you? What was your response to that tool? Alton Glass: Yes, so I was curious about the process directing, creating, working with the motion capture equipment and how all of those things were going to come together, the photogrammetry, the scanning of the clothes and the actors. I was like, wow, this is pretty amazing. And I was so empowered. I said, you know what? I'm going to open my own motion capture studio. I'm going to develop my own Unreal Engine training program. I want everybody to get a taste of this. And that's how that happened. Charlie Melcher: Alton, I'm seeing a pattern here of you being willing to go back to school in effect, start from scratch and teach yourself or learn a different medium each time and then incorporate it into your creative process. Not everybody's willing to get to a certain place and then go back to start from the beginning in a new place. I just find that very inspiring to see that you're somebody who stays that hungry and curious and is willing to take the kind of risks or put in the time to start from scratch each time to add to your creative toolkit. Alton Glass: And I think that's probably because when I was in school as a youth, I sat in the back of the class and I was a kid at the end of high school. A lot of my friends and guys I knew, and girls I knew at graduation, they were like, oh, and here's such and such valedictorian. I'm like, what is a valedictorian? What do you mean that they had a 4.8? I didn't even know you could. And I was like, hold on a second. And I didn't really apply myself like I could have in high school. So I had to learn how to adapt much faster when I graduated and I had to really buckle down and become a self-taught learner. I'm not going to let the learning curves stop me from becoming the best I can be when I have a desire to do something. So that's what fueled that ever since. Charlie Melcher: And that must be fuel for your desire to create educational programming now to bring new people in. Alton Glass: Yeah, because there's a lot of alternative learners who, they might not be traditional book learners. They might be learners who need really hands on. And I was that kind of kid. I needed really hands on and I needed to ask a lot of questions, and I'm still like that. So I wanted to make a program that allowed people to lean into their strengths, lean into their perspective, their identity, and not be put in a box and have to learn one way because everybody can't learn that way. They can't do the same thing. So I wanted to create a very diverse learning experience for people to empower themselves through their own lens. And that's what we use these tools for. So you don't get so hung up in the technology, but understanding how to leverage the technology for your benefit and to your strengths. And that's what I did. Charlie Melcher: I really relate to that. I was not a traditional book learner either. I was dyslexic. So I really had to learn with other senses, with my hands, with whatever else I could use, because those little letters and numbers were confusing. I think it's part of what makes me interested in the whole immersive world, is that I literally learned to read with my special ed teacher having a tray of sand on her lap, and I would have to say the letter, say the sound, like B, “buh”, and then draw a B in the tray of sand with my fingers. So I would feel it. And then I would hear her say it was like all the sense. Alton Glass: Oh wow. Charlie Melcher: It was a multi sensory experience. Alton Glass: Oh wow. That was immersion before the immersive storytelling. That's really cool. Charlie Melcher: So who's this program for? Tell us a little bit more, who are you trying to help educate, and what are they going to learn from taking your course? Alton Glass: Yeah, so the program is focused on immersive media and virtual production. So you learn fundamentals of immersive media, whether it's VR/AR, some people like to call it metaverse. It gives you an introduction into those aspects. And then we also tap into virtual production and understanding how learning things about motion capture, how to use Unreal Engine, getting some real good Unreal Engine foundation so you can learn how to build an idea. How to bring it to life. So most people will usually come out with a short animatic experience, like pre-visualization experience, and they can use that in that portfolio. And then you get that foundation and then you can use that and you can build on top of that. And then you can move into some of our more intermediate and advanced courses to get a lot more detailed and refined in the work that you're doing. Charlie Melcher: And who are you targeting these courses to? Alton Glass: I would say career changers. People who maybe you might have been an editor, or maybe a filmmaker or producer. Producer might not be the one pushing the buttons on the box. But once they come in and get an understanding of what this is, they understand how to apply their strengths and maybe go produce these projects and get on set and maybe become a virtual production producer. Or they might want to produce VR experiences. And then we also do college and high school. So for high school students, they get the opportunity to learn this much earlier as well, because if they're playing games and things like that, they learn what's under the hood of a Fortnite and how these things are made. But if you want to up skill really people who want to up skill and get ahead and diversify their toolkit. Charlie Melcher: Do you feel like there's something unique about VR and immersive storytelling that can help to give empathy for somebody else's perspective? Is it something that can be helpful to further social justice? Alton Glass: I would say yes and no. And I'll tell you why. And I think that I'll say yes, because it does allow people an opportunity to experience something from someone else's point of view right now. You want to make it embodied experience that could definitely have a shift. But I also think there's a very fine line between sympathy and compassion because if I feel sorry for you, I'll never see you as my equal. So you have to be careful with certain experiences that you make because then someone could come out just feeling sorry for you and not really actually feeling true empathy and compassion for a while. I understand, and I want to know how we can build upon this and actually do something about this, or I can see this perspective in a new way now and have a different approach. Charlie Melcher: You had mentioned when we spoke last time, that sometimes these types of pieces can make someone feel uncomfortable. What did you mean by that? Alton Glass: When you are trying to achieve empathy, you do want to make experiences that get people uncomfortable because then they feel different. They've had an experience that can make them think about it now, because we often feel sorry for someone, but we don't often get uncomfortable. And when we choose not to get uncomfortable for that very reason, and if I can offboard you in a way that really, really gets us to have a real conversation about what we can do together, to me that's a great immersive experience because now I've taken you there. I do understand why this might be happening, and I do want to understand where's my role in this, especially when you talk about social impact. Yes, getting uncomfortable. I think VR is a great tool for that. Charlie Melcher: And you don't just mean wearing the glasses on the head for too long. Alton Glass: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. That's the docent’s job. It makes sure we're onboarding properly and have a great experience. Because I remember when I did my first VR synchronized screening in the theater, there was one woman, we had 75 people synced up in the theater watching my first VR short. There was one woman after everybody was clapping who said, I don't know why everybody loves this film, this experience. I didn't see anything but black. And we said, ma'am, what happened? We found out that she looked in a direction and she never stopped looking in the other direction. So the whole experience took place where she was watching a wall and she had never looked the opposite direction because she didn't know to move. She couldn't move her head and look around. So she watched 11 minutes of the back of the room. Charlie Melcher: You mentioned offboarding, and you've mentioned onboarding. Can you tell us a little bit about how you think about those? What does that really mean? Alton Glass: Yeah, so onboarding, now I think about it as not just the technical aspects of the hardware, but how do I tell a story that invites you into the experience? Maybe that's something that I might develop on an app, on a phone to engage you, give you a little more and more information and make it a little bit more interactive, get you a little bit more invested in the experience. And then when you get there, you're a part of the journey already and I've given it context. And then you go through your experience and then after that coming out to really understand how can this, depending on what you're making, what's next from here? If you talk about empathy, how do I now tap into that? Did I make you uncomfortable? How am I offboarding you in a way that we can build off of that empathy or you being uncomfortable? What experience do I have after that for my onboarding? And we did that in the March when you came out of the experience and took your headset off, we had a room where you could take a moment to just decompress. Some people needed that. And then you had additional content that showed you the movement that it created, the marches and other movements and how big these movements became. And then moving into different communities and different cultures. And then we had another experience at the end where you got a chance to meet a Freedom Rider or someone who was a part of these campaigns and do an AI experience in this thing called story file where you could ask questions and things like that. So that was really, really cool. So it made me start to think about all of those different touch points of engagement and immersion outside of just the hardware of VR that I put on your head, or AR or whatever. Charlie Melcher: I definitely think that so much of how people understand the story or their own experience in one comes from the conversations they have and the way they describe it or talk about it as they come out of it. So that opportunity to have a conversation or at least reflect on what you've just experienced often is the takeaway. Alton Glass: Not to mention, we're talking about virtual reality here. So it's not like it's the easiest thing to jump into. So you have to really make that experience, be really considerate of the people that you're bringing into a VR headset or this technology, and make sure that that's an enjoyable experience because then it doesn't matter how great your experience is, they can come out and not enjoy when they come out of that experience and kind of ruin all that entire moment. I mean, the audience too. So you also got to consider, it's not like you can just market a movie. You don't market a movie. You are building your audience at the same time sometimes and reaching out to people who've never experienced VR too. So you know, want to make sure you bring them in and you build that audience and you hold onto that audience once they come out as well. That's the beautiful part about these experiences. So you want to be consider that because you're building an audience as you go and you want to retain them. Charlie Melcher: A lot of your time these days recently is geared towards this educational programming and platform. Do you think of that as a creative act? Is that a continuation of your self-expression? Alton Glass: Every now and then being a creative, I get a little frustrated, man, I just want to go shoot something. But I forget I have a lot of tools and a lot of, and I'm building the ecosystem where I'm still creating, but I'm just creating with more people. So the beauty of that is I just finished one of our cohorts for Unreal, and I was able to hire a couple of people from that program to help me work on one of my projects with Verizon and prototype some new designs and create some new worlds. And it was like, wow, that was beautiful, that I could now do that. And now I'm able to build on to that and I'm just growing the arsenal of tools that don't no longer just rely on me as a creator, but I can collaborate with so many more people, with so many more rich and unique perspectives and that they can bring to this. So that's what keeps me focused, knowing that as we continue to grow, we are building a regenerative ecosystem of creators who, if we pour into them, they'll pour back into the things we're doing. And that's what keeps me dedicated to that space and knowing that I'm constantly creating right, and I'm constantly empowering and I'm being empowered, so I'm going to be preparing to launch my next project. So I'm looking forward to that. And everything that I've done has been planned moving toward that direction and fueling that. So we have a motion capture studio. We have all these resources now that no longer, they're not just for me, but I can use them to create my content now. Charlie Melcher: Alton, is there anything that we didn't talk about that, that you'd like to, or any insights or thoughts that you've learned over the years that would be great to share with other storytellers? Alton Glass: Working in immersive, building GRX Immersive Labs, has allowed me to really tap into and develop my core values as a business and as a creator and artist. Number one, that I picked up along the way was when I transitioned from 2D to storytelling was the imagination is flameless, right? I no longer have to think inside that frame, that 2D box. You start to really challenge yourself to think outside the frame, right? Imagination it's frameless. Let's just explore, experiment R&D, try new things, fail. That was a big part of what I was doing was failing and getting back up. So I would say explore that. Really, really tap into your DNA. Don't be afraid to lean into your experiences because there's a lot of people that will connect with you. And sometimes it's better to go that way because there's riches in the niches. Go in one niche, there's opportunity for you to build a strong audience and base. So don't be afraid to not stream, swim up, swim downstream with everybody. You might have to go in the opposite direction. I'm a creative entrepreneur, so I always go back to to this. Even if you don't want to start a business, learn how to think one, because it is going to allow you to be investible, right? It's okay to be employable, but you also want to be investible. And don't ask for permission to be great. This is what I've learned in virtual reality. Virtual reality became less about a technology and became more of a philosophy for me and how I could create a new reality for myself. And that's what I did. And I know everybody else can leverage that and start to shift those pixels in your universe. Charlie Melcher: That's good wisdom for all of us. Alton Glass: Yeah, never too old to create. Charlie Melcher: Thank you, my friend. This was a lot of fun. Appreciate you. Alton Glass: Hey, thank you. I really appreciate it. Good looking out, and hopefully we'll tell some stories and create some experiences together. Well, I'm, I'm going to say we are going to create some experiences together. Let me put it that way. And thank you so much. Charlie Melcher: My thanks again to Alton Glass for being on today's podcast. To learn more about his GRX Immersive Labs, please visit the link in the episode's description. And a warm thanks to you as well for listening. If you enjoyed the episode, please consider giving us a five star rating. Your reviews help us reach a larger audience. You can also become part of the Future of StoryTelling family by signing up for our free monthly newsletter at fost.org. The FoST podcast is produced by Melcher Media in collaboration with our talented production partner, Charts & Leisure. I hope to see you again soon for another deep dive into the world of storytelling. Until then, please be safe, stay strong, and story on.