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Charlie Melcher:

Hi, I'm Charlie Melcher, founder and director of the Future of StoryTelling. And I'm delighted to welcome you back to the FoST Podcast. One of the founding principles of the future of storytelling is the idea of cross-pollinization: that by bringing together people with significantly different backgrounds and skillsets, we encounter new ideas and perspectives that can transform our own work. Today, I'd like to introduce you to a creator who, though his area of expertise may be a far cry from your own, forms an instructive example of how to meet the challenges of COVID-era storytelling head-on. Helder Guimarães is a world champion magician whose unique blend of masterful storytelling and mind-bending magic has led to sellout shows around the world. A multi-talented artist, he often writes, directs and choreographs his own productions. Yet despite his formidable talents, one might assume that the pandemic would present a near-insurmountable challenge to Helder, as a magician who specializes in closeup card magic and sleight-of-hand.

His work does not offer itself easily to virtual adaptation, but Helder's not one to back down from a challenge, and his latest show, The Present, is proof. Rather than trying to circumvent the issue of digital separation, The Present makes it a fundamental part of the magic. And rather than trying to draw viewers into the virtual space of their computer screens, Helder uses his showmanship and some unique tricks to explode The Present out of the confines of the computer and into the homes of each and every viewer. During a time when most live performances have been completely shut down, Helder's created a smash hit show that's been consistently sold out since it first opened back in May. I'm thrilled to welcome Helder Guimarães to the Future of StoryTelling Podcast.

Charlie Melcher:

Helder Guimarães, it is such a pleasure to have you on the Future of StoryTelling Podcast. Thank you for being here.

Helder Guimarães:

Thanks for the invitation, Charlie.

Charlie Melcher:

I've been a fan of yours since I first saw you perform at the TED conference years and years ago, and was so honored to have you come and perform at the Future of StoryTelling. And one of the things that I've always been amazed by is that your prowess as a magician is only one part of the sort of tools, of the arsenal, that you employ. You tell amazing stories. It's really about taking your audience on a journey. First, why is it that you got into magic, and where did that start for you?

Helder Guimarães:

So, I started with magic because my father did magic as a hobby. That's how it all began. And when I was a little kid, my kindergarten had this Christmas party. The kindergarten knew my father and knew that he did magic, so they kind of challenged him, “do you want to do something for Helder's class? You know, something very simple for them.” And he said, “Do you want to do something?” And I said yes. And so that all started like a little thing I was going to do. I had this box, very simple trick. It was empty. I closed the box, I said the magic words, I opened the box, and it was filled with candies. And I start throwing the candies to my kindergarten mates, and they loved me. And so I was the hero of the kindergarten for a few months.

Charlie Melcher:

And what for you makes magic really work? What is it that's unique or special about it that connects to you?

Helder Guimarães:

Many people ask me, “why do you do magic?” And it seems like a simple question to answer. And actually, it's probably one of the hardest ones, because I can't give a rational answer why I do magic. I can't see myself without being attached to magic in a certain way. So when people ask me why I do magic, my answer, my honest answer is because I can't not do magic.

I have this gut feeling that I need to share things with magic. Now, magic is a very unexplored artistic area. There is so much to be found inside about what already exists, but new ways of exploring it, especially, in my opinion, making it personal. I think that's where I really love seeing another magician is when I see that his work is personal. Because there are so many standards of magic, or classics of magic, that so many magicians do, and they are beautiful on their own, and I can be entertained for five, ten minutes, but I would not want to sit for one hour and see a performer doing things that other people can do. I want to see that uniqueness, that personal side.

Charlie Melcher:

So tell us a little bit about why you started to incorporate stories into your performance.

Helder Guimarães:

It comes down from the theater background and from loving to perform. There are so many different aspects of a magic performance that need to be taken in account. One of them is the deception side of what I do. You need to be fooled in order to have a feeling that you saw something impossible. So in order to take that deception and create an illusion, you need to attach something to it. And it might be a simple pattern that is very funny, that is very elegant, that puts you in the zone to watch that. It can be as simple as that. But that's where I started to ask questions to myself, as I was growing and creating more and more things. I was like, “What can be done in these moments that take this to a new level?” And of course, I start reading a lot, researching a lot of what other people have been doing before me with those areas as well.

Charlie Melcher:

So now let me ask you about the relationship with the audience. You're used to performing on a stage. You can hear people, sometimes you're maybe pulling somebody up from the audience. How do you think about that audience when you're designing your performances?

Helder Guimarães:

I feel that the audience is an active part of the show. So I can't conceive a live performance without thinking of it a little bit like jazz. So I know that there is a set of things I'm going to have to hit along the way, but there are a couple of moments where I need to be open to what the audience is going to give me, because that makes two things. One, makes the show different every time. And that is way more interesting, even for me. I love when I'm surprised in my own shows by the audience. The other side of that same coin is that the audience understands that those moments are never going to happen again. And that makes the interaction and the moment they are witnessing much more special too, I believe.

I always leave it very open in those moments when I have an audience interaction, to be open to the randomness. Most of the times, it's according to a certain set of rules. People are not necessarily crazy to the point that they don't know how to behave, I'm not suggesting that. But sometimes you'll have moments that are completely random, interesting, even for me. I laugh. So for example, I'll tell you a brief story about Invisible Tango. I was doing the show and I think at this point I probably had done the show 40 times.

Charlie Melcher:

So this was the show you did, your previous show at the Geffen, is that right?

Helder Guimarães:

Yes. The show I did last year at the Geffen, physically at the Geffen Playhouse. And so I had probably done 40 shows and there was a moment, not wanting to get into too much detail, but there was a blindfold that I was going to use for something. I would always give the blindfold to check to someone in the audience. And there is nothing tricky or special with a blindfold. People can actually check it and make sure that they don't see anything.

40 shows in, one person that I give, “Can you examine, make sure that you can't see anything through?” The person goes like, “Yeah, I can see a little bit of light.” Because she's literally looking directly at the lights in the theater with a blindfold. So of course you're going to see light, but she's not going to see anything. But she says, “Oh yeah, I can see a little bit.” And so I said, “Really? Can you really see something?” And she said, “Yeah, a little bit of light.” And then we're like, “Okay.” I take the blindfold, I throw it away. But that moment, you can't engineer it. It's either honest, and everyone feels that honesty, and it's alive, and it's amazing, or if you engineer it, it's just going to look fake, and it's not going to be the same for the audience that sees it. So I love that.

Charlie Melcher:

Just the opportunity to have something that's spontaneous, that is co-created with the audience. She became part of the act, and clearly was not scripted. You were making it up together. It's magic that you can respond to that in real time, but there's a sense of wonder that comes from something that happens in real time that's not pre-recorded, pre-planned, pre-scripted. And then of course, there's also just the feedback. You hear the laughter, or you hear the gasp. That must be an incredibly important part of when you hit your timing, and you're learning all the time, too. You're getting feedback every show...

Helder Guimarães:

Absolutely. I always like to say this: when I create a magic show, let's suppose I'm creating in my studio and I'm practicing it and nobody's seeing, there is no magic. The magic only exists when I have an audience in front of me and they respond to the illusions I'm creating. Otherwise, there is no magic.

Charlie Melcher:

And all of that you've experienced for so many years in a live setting, in a real theater, in front of real human beings. And then we run into COVID and we're all in quarantine. And what do you do? You create a show that's custom crafted just for people to experience through Zoom, from the safety of their home. So, so tell us about The Present. How did it come about, and just give the quick description so people understand what it is.

Helder Guimarães:

The Present is show that has the elements I always use in my performance, which is storytelling and magic. But due to the situation that we are in, everyone can watch from their own home in Zoom. So when you buy the ticket to see the show, you are asked to give an address where you are going to be seeing the show. Because prior to the show, and it depends where you live, but I would say more or less a week before the show or five days before the show, you receive a box in your house that you're told not to open, and if you are listening to this, and you're going to watch the show at some point in the future, do not open that box until the time of the show. But in the day of the show, you have the link, you show your unopened box, that's your ticket to go into the show, and you watch this show. And the show, magic is going to happen in my own hands as a magician, but you are making decisions for that magic to happen in my own hands.

A big part of the experience is that you have objects that you're going to follow the show with. Most people don't expect how far these things can go in terms of magic. And I'm really proud about these things I've created. But also because there is a sense of isolation at this moment. And all of a sudden, you are in this Zoom call with many other people and you see them doing the things to themselves and the magic happening on other people's houses. And I don't want to get into specifics, but all of that creates a sense of community in that show, which was our biggest goal with these experiences. We are isolated, but there is a sense of community when you see this show, and that's very important.

Charlie Melcher:

Well, I should say that we, we bought out one of your shows, Future of StoryTelling did last week and we had 25 people come to it. First of all, it was delightful to see how many people wanted to come. We had more people wanting to come than we had spots. And then when people showed up, it wasn't just that person, it was that person with their family. So, we had 25 spots, but there were probably 100 people watching your performance all at the same time. And I want to just start by saying, that right away felt so much more intimate. Everyone in gallery view, we could see everybody's living room or home, wherever they were. And we saw their loved ones gathered around with them.

Helder Guimarães:

And their pets.

Charlie Melcher:

And their pets, and sometimes their friends came over for the show too. And so, immediately it felt more like all of us in the den together, all of us gathered together. But you tell a story that's based in the idea of quarantine, which experienced from your own life.

So it's a personal story and you do magic that we get to, as you say, participate in, but then you have us do magic. And the idea that somehow your skills as a magician can transcend that screen and come into our own homes and create a sense of awe and wonder in our hands or on our own tables was one, spectacular. Two, it was so unexpected to be isolated, and yet feel like you were there as if literally, you were having us pick a card. The same way you would do it if you were literally two feet away from each other.

What I really felt was like the screen disappeared and all of us were now in this experience of awe and wonder together. Ultimately, I think that's what so many of us are trying or hoping for as creators who are now limited to a new kind of canvas, this computer screen, this Zoom software, since we can't do live events, we can't go to the theater, we can't go to museums or to the Future of StoryTelling conference. All of these things that we would normally do to have community and to have these moments of awe and wonder together are taken away from us. And yet you've managed to find a way to transcend the limitations of this funnel, this straw that we're all working through, and make us feel that way. So how'd you do it? What's the secret?

Helder Guimarães:

Well, first of all, thank you so much for that. And the big point of the show or the big magic moment of the show is when you as an audience feel that you're not in front of a screen and that you are with the other people. And that's what we wanted ultimately to get. How did we do it? It's a really good question. I would love to tell you that we have a spectacular formula that works for everyone. I don't think that's the case, but I do believe that one of the breakthrough ideas is that there is a physical involvement with the audience. That they are not just in front of the screen, they are doing something. Now, in my case, and with my work and my solution, the idea was to send people this box. That already creates some mystery, because they can't open it before the performance.

Then they open, then there are the objects that are related to the story I'm telling. You unfold every single chapter, let's say, of the box with some magical moment that either happens on the screen or in their hands. But there is something active about their experience that I think makes it so much different than Netflix. Here, it's because you are making decisions in your own hands, as things are evolving, and you see other people doing those same decisions, having different outcomes. That side of being active, I think it's a big part. First of all, I love that in a regular magic show. But having that happen miles away, I'm in LA you are in New York, having that happen in New York while I'm in LA, I think there is something magical about just that idea and that notion.

Charlie Melcher:

Well, seeing the faces of those families, so both adults and children, be so incredibly happy, so delighted, have a sense of like they had transcended or escaped their isolation for a little period of time... They also, by the way, had something that was very bonding. I spoke to many of them afterwards who have said that ever since the show, they've been discussing it with their kids. It's still very much alive for them as they think about it. That is really priceless and beautiful. And that moment when you open the box, it's kind of like the curtain rises and the set is revealed. There is such intentionality about the design of it to help put you in the right mood and to help to start to communicate the ideas that the show is about. So my next question for you is, do you have any specific advice for other people or organizations of how they might think about transcending the distance that's happening through Zoom, through the screen?

Helder Guimarães:

I think that the best way of approaching any problem is not to look at it as a problem and look at as a possibility—a new door that opens. And I think once you have that mindset change, you're going to see things that probably before, you'd be complaining about. You're going to be saying this, “Ugh, now everyone can't be un-muted...” No, that's how it is. Now, what can we do with that? It's a different mindset, and that changes completely how you're going to be seeing possibilities. Because otherwise, I don't think you can actually see those possibilities. The other thing I would say, we talked about this briefly before, but it's the idea that you shouldn't be thinking about adapting something or watering down something that live would be better, and now it's just okay.

No, no, no, no. At that point, don't do it. We're going to be back into theaters. We're going to be back into live events. And we're all going to be wanting to be on those events because we've been deprived of those. So save those ideas for those moments, and think about, in this moment, what makes sense for you to say as an artist, and what makes sense to communicate through this platform? And it can be Zoom, but it doesn't have to be Zoom. Zoom is just what people have been using, but there are so many other things that you can do at this point, I think. The question becomes, what you want to say in this moment, under the restrictions we're under? But don't look at them as a barrier. Think of them as possibilities.

Charlie Melcher:

Is there anything else that you think magic has to teach us? Is there something that, as a magician, you can share that would help storytellers?

Helder Guimarães:

I will tell you a couple of things that I think magic has, which is understanding that, one, you'll never understand everything about the world. If you know that, if you have that feeling, that you'll never understand everything, but if you can enjoy that moment of awe and translate that moment of awe for any other areas in your life, you're going to have a much more nicer life and much more positive life. And if there is something I think magic constantly reminds us, it's that, one, we need to be humble, because there are always things we will never understand, and we should always have a little bit of mystery in our lives to keep it interesting.

Charlie Melcher:

I couldn't agree more. I think a lot of great art does that. It gives you that sense of belonging to something bigger and unexplainable and mysterious. Even though in a way it makes you feel very small, it also enables you to feel universal, to feel somehow part of the greater mystery of the world or the universe. And we need more magicians clearly.

Helder Guimarães:

But you're right. I think we need more wonder, and that wonder can be done through magic, but I think it can definitely be explored by other areas and other artistic areas. And as long as artists keep that wonder alive, as a society, I think we'll be okay.

Charlie Melcher:

I so agree. And I thank you so much, Helder. This has been a really beautiful conversation, and very honored to have you be part of the Future of StoryTelling family. So thank you.

Helder Guimarães:

Well, thank you so much and thanks so much for the invitation. I don't even remember what year it was, 2015 or something like that. I had a great time. I always tell that that was one of the events that I went to that opened so many other doors in terms of how I see the world. I think we need more events like that in the world, because I think it's really an important thing for us to keep challenging what we do by seeing what other people are challenging in their own areas. It's so refreshing. I really love it.

Charlie Melcher:

Again, thank you so much. And I can't wait to see you again soon and to be at your next performance. Can't wait to see what you come up with next.

Helder Guimarães:

Virtual or physical, we'll see.

Charlie Melcher:

I hope that you found this conversation with Helder as enlightening as I did. If you'd like to learn more about Helder and his work or purchase tickets to The Present's grand finale on October 17th, you can do so by visiting the link in episode's description. Thank you to our talented production partner, Charts & Leisure, and a special thanks to you, our listener. If you enjoyed this episode, please be sure to subscribe to the podcast, give us a review, and share it with a friend. We'll see you in a couple of weeks for another deep dive into the world of storytelling. Until then, stay safe, be strong, and story on.