Greg Lombardo, Revisited: Pursuing Fan Joy at Scale

Charles Melcher:

Hi, I’m Charlie Melcher, founder of the Future of Storytelling. Happy New Year and welcome back to the Future of Storytelling podcast. Last year I had the opportunity to sit down with dozens of incredible storytellers who are shaping the media landscape of tomorrow. One interview that I keep coming back to is the one with Greg Lombardo, Head of Experiences at Netflix. In his role, Greg leads Netflix’s efforts to more deeply engaged with their fans by allowing them to step into the story worlds and have embodied adventures in some of their favorite shows such as Bridgerton and Stranger Things. These immersive experiences have been a huge hit reaching hundreds of thousands of fans in multiple cities around the world. Since my conversation with Greg a year ago, Netflix has continued to expand their experiential portfolio with new offerings such as the Squid Game immersive experience now open in LA, and the announcement of Netflix houses that will serve as home bases for their in-person events starting in 2025. As more and more companies enter the immersive entertainment arena, I often think back to this conversation with Greg on how he and his team have made location-based entertainment work so successfully both creatively and economically. I hope you enjoy this revisited episode with Greg Lombardo.

 

Greg, welcome to the FoST podcast. It’s really a pleasure to have you here.

Greg Lombardo:

Thanks for having me. It’s great to be here.

Charles Melcher:

So I should start by just saying thank you for that extraordinary tour that you gave to the FoST Explorers Club some months ago of the Stranger Things experience of the Brooklyn Navy Yard. It was amazing.

Greg Lombardo:

Thank you. Yeah, we were really happy to have you and the FoST team attend. It was a pleasure.

Charles Melcher:

So tell us how that experience is doing, and then I’m going to ask you about the larger efforts at Netflix.

Greg Lombardo:

Sure, yeah. Well, that I’m happy to report that experience is going very strong. Obviously, stranger Things has been a remarkable title for Netflix. Season four eclipsed our wildest expectations. That’s a title now that in season four has grown year over year, and you have fans who come to that title for the eighties nostalgia. They come for the supernatural and kind of horror elements, and I think they come for those sort of themes of friendship over fear and common folks becoming heroes. And so that particular experience for us was really important to capture all those elements and bring them to the fans in a way that they could participate in partake and feel like in essence, our sort of thesis of that was let’s make fans feel like they’re in an episode of the show

Charles Melcher:

More than even just being in an episode. What was amazing was to feel as if you had superpowers, you became a hero in that story and in a very kind, embodied way. So just tell us a little bit about how you think about designing an immersive experience like that and what were some of the highlights of that experience?

Greg Lombardo:

That experience, like all the experiences we’ve done so far is an incredibly collaborative effort and it involves an incredible team on the Netflix side, which I’m very honored to work with on a daily basis, but also working with some of the best content creators in the world. So you’ve got, in that case, Matt and Ross Duffer were involved. Early on, we brought in Paul Dicker, who was a writer on an episode for season four and also producer. We leveraged Rodeo who does the Demogorgon and Demodog special, the CGI. And so there was a lot of series talent involved in that effort from the get-go.

Charles Melcher:

That’s amazing. That’s amazing because also you just have world-class people. Most immersive experiences aren’t getting–I mean, with the exception maybe of Disney– aren’t getting that level of talent, as you said, from the beginning to help them envision and create it.

Greg Lombardo:

And it makes all the difference in the world, right? A show like Stranger Things or Bridgerton or something like La Casa, some of the things we’ve created, experiences for the fans know if it feels genuine, they will sniff that out very quickly. And I think it is almost impossible to sort of bring these shows to life without that real active and passionate participation from the creators. And then we have an in-house team that draws upon a tremendous amount of experience from design and production and operations, and then we also pull in a lot of amazing talent from the industry.

Charles Melcher:

So I’m really curious as to why Netflix, a company that we all associate with some of the best streaming content in the world, would make a decision to invest in immersive experiences. I mean, I think about the volume of people who get to watch your shows on television versus the volume of people that get to go through a live experience. Why are you doing this?

Greg Lombardo:

Look, we’re always looking for new innovative ways to engage with the members on service. And when you have content that speaks to people the way Stranger Things does, the way La Casa de Papel does, the way Bridgerton does, the way Army of the Dead speaks to them, you want to find ways to deepen that relationship with the story. Ultimately, I mean, we do it because we’re relentlessly pursuing fan joy. Find ways to give people more ways to love these stories, more ways to love Netflix. And ultimately, I think immersive experiences are an incredible way to give fans their hero moment. So it is about that notion of unlocking that fantasy, unlocking that agency and unlocking that world for fans in a way that’s going to give them an additional sort of touchpoint and frankly, most importantly, a touch point that happens in between those season releases. So we want to be there and meet them at that moment and give them that reminder, that engagement, that another lens into that world. And I think that’s why we’re trying to focus on finding a particular thread within that universe that we want to pull on and expand upon. Again, it’s another reason why it’s so important to have the creators involved.

Charles Melcher:

I mean, I think about the old school model of merchandise licensing off of a successful show, and you’re kind of– there’s an expression or an idea that I learned from folks at Disney where you can do things that are taking away from the value of the property or things that are enhancing it. What creator doesn’t want something that’s going to just continue to make a happier community around their stories and their characters?

Greg Lombardo:

I think the community is the key, and that’s something that creators and audiences share that love of community. So if you are a fan of the show, being able to celebrate that love in an environment of like-minded individuals is a remarkable opportunity. And I agree with you in the consumer products world, it’s sometimes not–the focus is not always on the end user. It’s not always on the fan. And that’s not to say that you can’t be where they are. You can show up in a Walmart, it’s just how you show up. Whatever category you’re working in, making sure that it’s sort of led by creative and led by a notion of a story element. It always has to be sort of front and center.

Charles Melcher:

So give me a sense of how many people go through the Stranger Things experience or have gone through it.

Greg Lombardo:

A couple hundred thousand people per market on average, usually with a traveling experience because we have more than one unit on the road, it allows us to cover obviously more ground. But a lot of that is driven by the fact that we have a global membership. We have 222 plus million members around the world. They’re all very interested in a Stranger Things experience. They’re all very interested in a Bridgerton experience, so we want to make sure that we’re reaching them where they are. Part of that is also this nature of how can we be accessible? So I think when we’re thinking about experiences like this, can you create an accessible price point? Can you reduce barriers to entry by going to people? That’s a way to do that. Can you reduce barriers to entry through the geographic proximity? And again, we go to cities around the world, that’s a way to get closer to the members and allow them to experience these things hopefully more than once a year.

Charles Melcher:

So a couple hundred thousand in a market. I just want to reemphasize two things you just said so we don’t lose them. One, that you have multiple shows going at the same time of the same experience, and that’s pretty unique. I don’t know of other people doing that. And the other is that you’re designing these for a global audience so that you can take them all over the world, which again, I don’t know anyone else really doing that. There’s a lot that’s very exciting about what you guys are doing because you’re bringing it on a level of professionalism and scale. There’s a lot of learnings I’m sure that you have from being one of the first to take it on at this level of professionalism and scale. So you have a couple hundred thousand in a market and maybe you stay there for a certain amount of time– that’s like three months, six months…?

Greg Lombardo:

Somewhere between three and six months. On average, it’s about three to four months. A lot of that is really driven by the venue availability. So in the case of Brooklyn, the Navy Yard with Stranger Things: The Experience is a good example. We still had a lot of demand in that market. We just didn’t have the venue any longer. But at the same time, there’s always that trade off of you can come back to a market. So it’s that trade off of, okay, New York has seen it now other markets are out there that want this show and want this experience. So that’s the sort of balancing act. Look, it’s not without its challenges for me and for the team. The priority when it comes to the concept development is: can we operationalize this creative? Can we operationalize excellence? And is this a concept that not only works for the show? Is it a concept that’s going to work for the audience? Is it a concept that’s going to work over and over and over again, market to market to market?

Charles Melcher:

When we talk about how you see these as being successful, I’m just curious, are there other KPIs or metrics that use for success other than ticket sales?

Greg Lombardo:

Ticket sales are a great metric of success simply because if you’re selling out, it means that you’ve created something that people want. It also means that you’ve probably hit an appropriate price point and that you’ve made it accessible enough to those people, which is important. But the big KPIs for us are the guest satisfaction ratings. We do a lot of survey information with the consumers. We make a lot of changes to these experiences. In fact, if you would’ve gone to the first Money Heist, a.k.a. La Casa de Papel experience that we opened in Paris, it would be markedly different than the one that opened in London or New York or Miami or Mexico City because we made iterative changes along the way based on that feedback that we’re getting from the guests. And that’s the thing I love about immersive experiences like this, is we’re having a dialogue with our fans and they’re able to really tell us what they liked and what they didn’t.

 

And if they tell us they don’t like something, we’re going to figure out a way to change it. So that’s super rewarding. Then the next step is, are they going to tell their friends about it? Are they going to talk about it? And of course, that organic social that we get off of the experiences is obviously tremendously is important. You’re generating millions and millions and millions of impressions. Sometimes you find something that just resonates on social. And I think with the Queen’s Ball Bridgerton experience, the “diamond of the evening” moment has become one of my most favorite things to see on social. It’s taken on a life of its own. It’s a lens into this incredibly diverse audience. For that show, the majority of the audience is predominantly women, which are not particularly well-served in a lot of experiences when it comes to development for that audience and also a very diverse community. And seeing a post from a member of the trans community who was selected as the diamond of the evening who then says, “hey, this was my first night as a woman,” that’s an incredibly empowering message for that community, and that’s an incredibly rewarding moment for us because there’s real meaning in that moment, and it’s not just play.

Charles Melcher:

Well so, let’s talk a little about the Queen’s Ball. So you were very kind also to invite me to the opening night of that in LA, and I had a magical evening. It was really, I thought a just beautifully done immersive experience. It really understood its audience. There was just the right kinds of interactions that were appropriate to the show, that were appropriate to the fans’ desires for what would happen there. I mean, my favorite example is the moment when you get presented to the Queen and people lined up to be able to be presented to the Queen and had practiced their curtsies. And this act of just simply being able to walk forward to the Queen and to do this bow and then stand up ,and then she was kind of nonplussed and waved you off, couldn’t have been less interested, but somehow you got people to do this gesture that was so meaningful to them.

 

The embodied experience of bowing to the queen was so meaningful to people. It made their night. There was opportunity to capture photos of that. And then of course, you’re talking about the other highlight of the night when the diamond of the ball is identified. And the night I was there, it was a mother there with her daughter and maybe in her fifties, not somebody who was thinking that she was going to be the belle of the ball, and she was noticeably emotional about having gotten chosen to stand up and be honored in front of everyone. Anyway, it was really, really nicely done. Congratulations on it. And I also have to say, I felt really kind of embarrassed and I let you down because I was there on work and I didn’t come with a costume and might’ve been literally one of five people out of– how many are there, 200?– that weren’t dressed to–literally, in period costume to meet the Queen.

Greg Lombardo:

It’s really–well, all’s forgiven, by the way. And so it’s another measure of success when you have that level of participation from the guest. And in the case of the Queen’s Ball, again, we weren’t sure we knew that viewers of that show we’re very interested in the costuming, but well over 90% of the guests every night come decked. They’re completely–and it’s the men, the women, across the board.

Charles Melcher:

And isn’t there a little cottage industry that’s grown up around it? People will come and dress you or you can rent outfits and…

Greg Lombardo:

There is. We’ve started working with local costume shops. When we go into town, we let them know and they then make it known that you can go there and rent costumes. There have been organic communities on Facebook that have sprouted up to help people prepare for the Queen’s Ball, and it’s this community of people who are just in love with the show, in love with the experience, and they’re there to help and support others. And I think that experience, it couldn’t be more analog. It’s a completely different format and experience than Stranger Things. That’s what was appropriate for that series. There’s a story for the evening that is held together through a series of performative vignettes that represent the sort of ethos and sort of tropes of the show, but the real narrative participants in the show are the guests. And so giving them those sort of gateway moments–like the curtseying, the presenting, the bowing to the Queen– that sort of is a bit of an opening salvo to the fact that, not too long from then, we’re going to be asking people to take the dance floor and participate in a Regency dance, which again, is not the thing that out of the gate most people come prepared to do, but it’s sort of giving them enough license and agency and kind of curation to know that they can.

 

That’s the part about that show that I love so much is that I think more than any other show, it’s really a party.

Charles Melcher:

It’s something between cosplay and LARPing and immersive theater that you’re zeroing in on and letting people live. Having done this now for a while, why is it that the fans are so hungry for this? I mean, I really see there’s a tremendous demand. I mean, the fact that you’re having these kinds of successes, what is it about people that these are fulfilling?

Greg Lombardo:

Well, look, I think at the end of the day, it’s a desire to connect. I think it’s very human emotion at play, which is the desire to connect with others and have a shared experience. So a lot of it comes down to in the past where you want to share currency of being someplace. I think it’s now about sharing the currency of others and sharing a currency of connection. I think you see that when people dress up. It’s like– Bridgerton, Queen’s Ball, we often refer, it’s like prom for adults. It is that fantasy. It’s that notion of “I want to go back, I want to experience what that is like in this reinvented Regency era.”

Charles Melcher:

I really appreciate the point about the social component of it and wanting to have something to go out to do together. I would also venture that there’s a desire to try on different roles, that some of it is also allowing us to have the freedom to have a kind of playing that we would’ve done as kids when we would play with dolls or play roles or play doctor or whatever it was. And that this allows us to step out of the role that we get defined by as we become adults and put on a new costume and play a new–

Greg Lombardo:

Yeah, it’s the license. It’s the license to play. And I love the fact that I go to these things, that I’m dressed up. I have my Bridgeton outfit that I found online and I can’t get enough of it, but I love that there’s so many people that are sharing that same experience. It is that moment of just incredible freedom. You’re putting on a mask for the night, both literally and figuratively. I guess.

Charles Melcher:

I’m curious to ask you a little bit about some of the nuts and bolts. How do you make a decision about which properties do you want to invest in to do this? How do you think about which cities you’re going to go to? Just, some of the practical decisions you have to face…?

Greg Lombardo:

Because of the approach being to serve as much as possible a global membership? The initial round of stories that we’ve chosen to create an experience around have been titles that have big audience, obviously, and a global audience. And certainly that’s been true of everything thus far that we’ve kind of taken on. Not every title with a big global audience is necessarily actionable through an immersive experience. So it doesn’t make it any less good a title. It’s just that there’s certain components. So what are those component parts? I mean, certainly a world, is it a world we want to walk into? Does it have unique characteristics and does it have characters whose shoes we want to walk in? How can we provide another viewing point or point of participation into that world? Those are the things we really look at. And it’s always a tough decision because there’s a lot of great content to choose from.

Charles Melcher:

I have found sometimes that executives at traditional media companies can have trouble thinking outside of the medium that they were raised in. Are you getting the support internally? Is this something that Netflix is investing more heavily in moving forward? What’s been the feedback from above?

Greg Lombardo:

Yeah, it’s been great. We’re just always looking for ways to connect with our members and ways to bring them more deeply into stories they love. We’re trying to allow you to see yourself more in those stories by doing this. We’ve been remarkably fortunate. I don’t necessarily know if anyone else would’ve let us do what we’re doing. So it’s been great and couldn’t be happier. And I think there’s a general sentiment among, to your point, the creators and everyone at Netflix that this is something that at the end of the day, brings members joy and is worth doing.

Charles Melcher:

Well, I think if you add up all those metrics we were talking about between ticket sales and social media and the way people talk about the brand because of these experiences, not to mention merchandising sales and people coming out through the gift shop and leaving wearing the T-shirt or becoming walking advertisements for the shows, and the fact that you have so many of them. I mean, it sounds like in literally a couple of years you’ve had maybe a dozen more productions in different cities.

Greg Lombardo:

So we’ve opened, I want to get this right. We’ve had over, I think it’s 35 launches in 17 cities around the world.

Charles Melcher:

Wow. Damn. That’s a lot. I mean, most companies that are doing immersive experiences are lucky to get one up every two or three years. So do you think this is the trend of the future?

Greg Lombardo:

Yeah, I don’t know. I mean, I don’t spend too much time worrying about what the competition’s going to do. I don’t think there’s a lot of upside to that. I think that I love this space the more the merrier. I hope there’s a world out there where there’s a lot more of these things happening.

Charles Melcher:

Well, we’re so appreciative for you sharing your experience, and I just want to say I feel like I’m speaking on behalf of all of us fans who love not just Netflix shows, but immersive experiences for the work that you are doing in terms of helping to seed this industry, to feed these passionate fans, and to help some of the bigger media companies to take note of this as a growing and thriving medium or field. So thank you so much for all the great work that you’re doing, and I hope I get to come to some more of the openings and… Squid Game? Maybe not? But–

Greg Lombardo:

[laughter] A Squid Game experience would scare you, is that it?

Charles Melcher:

Maybe a little bit, maybe. I don’t want us to be the first one to opening night on that one, but [laughter]

Greg Lombardo:

Well listen, thanks. It is been great to be here, Charlie, I appreciate it. You’re an incredible ambassador for the industry, and it’s an honor to be on the podcast, and I just appreciate everything you do. Every time I talk to you, you have some new–you always have news for me and you’re like, have you checked this out? And I love that. And if I wish I had more time to go to more stuff, frankly, because there’s so much good stuff out there right now.

Charles Melcher:

Well, you’re invited to be part of the FoST Explorers Club, and we will be going every month to see one of the most amazing immersive experiences out there. And we’ll keep you posted or you’ll just come do ’em with us.

Greg Lombardo:

So awesome. Thanks a lot.

Charles Melcher:

I’m Charlie Melcher, and this has been The Future of Storytelling Podcast. Thanks for joining me. Already, 2024 looks like it’ll be a remarkable year for storytellers. If your resolution is to stay up to date on the latest news about media, entertainment, marketing, technology, and more, subscribe to our free monthly newsletter at fost.org. We’ll help you stay on top of this exciting and rapidly changing landscape.

 

The FoST Podcast is produced by Melcher Media, in collaboration with our talented friends and production partners, Charts & Leisure. I hope to see you again soon for another deep dive into the world of storytelling. Until then, please be safe, stay strong, and story on.