Winston Fisher: At AREA15, Space is Content

Charlie Melcher 

Hi I’m Charlie Melcher, founder of the Future of StoryTelling. Welcome to the FoST podcast. It’s a pleasure to have you with me. AREA15 is the world’s first district dedicated to immersive entertainment, located just off the Las Vegas Strip. Since opening in 2023, AREA15 has welcomed nearly 4 million visitors and counting to its curated selection of world class experiences, including Meow Wolf’s Omega Mart, Wink World, Illuminarium, and more. And the AREA15 universe is only expanding– they’ll soon be adding another 20 acres to their Vegas location, launching their first licensed pop up location in Dubai and opening their second permanent location in Orlando next year. At the helm of this incredible growth is today’s guest, Winston Fisher. In addition to being the CEO of AREA15, Winston’s a partner in his family-owned and operated real estate company, Fisher Brothers, where he directs the company’s financial activities, property acquisitions and oversees all new development initiatives. With his background managing traditional properties, Winston brings a much needed fresh perspective to the location based entertainment industry. One that emphasizes the importance of a unique and creative physical space, coupled with a strong operational excellence ambitious vision that he has for AREA15 has set it apart as something truly special in the world of immersive entertainment. I’m excited to talk to him today about what makes AREA15 different, how it’s evolving, and how it’s impacting others in the field. Please join me in welcoming Winston Fischer.

 

Charlie Melcher 

Winston, welcome to the future of storytelling podcast. It’s such a delight to have you here with us today.

 

Winston Fisher

Thank you for having me really excited to speak to you.

 

Charlie Melcher 

So I remember when you approached me, just as you have the idea for AREA15 on the drawing board, and you are so kind to reach out and say, Hey, we’re doing this incredible immersive mall concept and would future storytelling like to be involved and I remember thinking an immersive mall off the strip in Vegas, that’ll never work.

 

Winston Fisher

I do remember the twinkle in the eye of doubt.

 

Charlie Melcher 

And I just want to say that I couldn’t be happier for having been proven so wrong. And congratulations on the great success that you’ve had with AREA15. It really is unique and extraordinary place. If you haven’t been there listeners, you should go and check it out. It’s really worth the time. But Winston, tell me, how did it come about? I mean, it’s unlike any other place.

 

Winston Fisher

It’s an interesting story. I own the land in Vegas actually 80 acres, a mile of frontage along I15. And I had a bunch of zany ideas through the years. My background– it’s a traditional real estate company. And so you know, people just basically looked at me with I, you know, truly cross-eyed, it really was about two and a half years of iteration of ideas and back and forth. And it was really almost a philosophical discussion just about the future. What is the future experiences location based entertainment, the decline of retail but malls and we are not a mall. There are principles of real estate that helped start area 15 It is evolved so much past that. I mean, it really was a warehouse with some event space. We met meow Wolf. They became the anchor tenant. And that’s where area 15 started as this just warehouse with meow Wolf, some cool events and cool our that’s what we thought there was this opportunity for a storytelling company in the experience economy. And then it just kept snow. I mean, it just the power of what we created, really has taken off.

 

Charlie Melcher 

I’m so curious about how you made that transition from traditional real estate, upbringing family. You know, you come from an illustrious family of real estate developers and I mean, they must have thought you were crazy when you said you wanted to create a experiential playground in a box in you know, in the desert in Vegas. What of that experience though, feels like it was very relevant or or really translated and helped you be able to create area? 15?

 

Winston Fisher

I mean, I think that there’s a few different things. One is, you do need to understand real estate, you need to understand placemaking you do have to understand, literally, like, just just basic real estate 101 and people in a lot of people think real estate’s easy. It’s obviously it’s a specialty, are you creating, frankly, quiet space workspace? You know, shared office space? What’s the what? What are the creative hubs for innovation for people to come together. So all of these things are, what I have to live with and deal with every day. So for me, real estate as content with purpose was just a natural extension of what we’re doing. placemaking is, is more than just just an architectural design. So I think, I don’t know if, if I think actually experience what I’ve seen from other people is not appreciating the power of physical and the power of execution, their power to be able to, literally to build, because that’s what we’re talking about, and have that construction expertise, project management expertise. AREA15 is also not a simple idea, you have to have an appreciation, I always said to the team, rubbish removal is equally as important as creative. Because if you don’t have a process to take out the trash, doesn’t matter how cool something looks. So understanding that operations, HR, accounting procedures budgeting is I know, that’s not the sexy part of what we’re talking about. But you can’t build something like area 15, if you don’t have really that appreciation, or expertise or skill set and an ability to think outside the lines. I mean, that is for all the talk, I think that is one of my skills. It

 

Charlie Melcher 

does seem that there particularly after the pandemic, that how we use buildings, and spaces is really shifting, right, we all used to go to an office to work, we would go to the mall to shop and hang out. A lot of those types of buildings are struggling now or not being fully utilized. And yet here you are creating, building to have play and experience like it’s almost like we’ve inverted now we stay home to work. And we’re going out to area 15 To have a fun social interaction. I’m just wondering how you’re thinking about the evolution of how we use built spaces.

 

Winston Fisher

Yeah, I mean, look, there’s a profound transformation going on in society that the pandemic accelerated, but didn’t usher it. Right. I mean, Zoom was there before. It just, it took us to a world frankly, of online, right, we got a chance. Same thing with shopping. Interestingly, enough, of you know, every bow, it’s all going to be digital, what we have learned, is that a terrible future of all online, right. And so what we’re settling into, whether it’s retail, whether it’s office is what does the digital physical balance look like? Long before AREA15. I recognize that that the future, it has to have more purpose than commodity, because real estate is a commodity in many ways. So how do you think about it? How do I make real estate into content?

 

Charlie Melcher 

You’re the first person I’ve ever heard, say real estate is content. And I’d love to understand how you think about the content for AREA15.

 

Winston Fisher

Its potential, what we’re doing, where it’s grown to, is this realization, ultimately, and we are not there yet, but we’re or we’re doing it is this. I believe there’s a digital physical overlay that will somewhat be seamless as you go forward. And that is almost true of anywhere. Real estate is content is everything from What’s its purpose. I mean, look, the stockyards down in Dallas, Fort Worth, right. They took the old stockyards and now they’ve got the Rodeo and it’s or Broadway in Nashville. That’s just content that’s a bunch of Honky Tonk bars, everybody’s having fun buses going up and down its physical content, not in the necessarily traditional way. But wow, does that drive a lot of traffic, a lot of value. So so real estate is content, you have to inject purpose. So I think more and more it needs to be it’s easy to be commodity though, because most real estate is commodity also at the same time. So so that special real estate is what starts to have more value. You don’t need a mall unless it has a purpose or itself. As the right things, and then it’s exceptionally valuable.

 

Charlie Melcher 

I mean, I think about Alex McDowell, who we’ve had on the show talks about world building, and how you have to create space in which stories can organically grow adventures can take place. The world builders set some rules, the physics, if you will, of that environment, and then people come in and can create their own content, you know, their own adventures.

 

Winston Fisher

I agree. Where AREA15 gets very interesting… the brand is a world building brand. We have tenants we own and operate and we lease we’re, it’s but it’s a curated mix of Meow Wolf, as you mentioned, Wink World, Museum Fiasco, a psychedelic light experience, PlayModes did it out of Spain. Candy Store, we’ve got The Beast restaurant, Kya hand roll, Five Iron Golf, Virtualis VR, right? Kappa Toys. So we have all this programming and content that that is for people, all different kinds, right. But but to a brand standard. And then we have activations, which is like the gamification of the space, we have an interactive brain, we have an overhead powered zipline. And it’s all fused together with really cool art, lighting. It’s an immersive world housing, immersive experiences and cool events. And so we always say there’s no skipping the record when you’re at AREA15, which is so much different than everyplace else, because you might be in a mall, but then you come out and you’re next to Zales.

 

Charlie Melcher 

How do you balance that though? Because you don’t control the tenants? Right? You know, it’s not like you get to design their aesthetic or anything. I mean, how do you get it all flow together, given that some things you control and some things you are the landlord.

 

Winston Fisher

Part of it is curation. We look for best in class experiences. We look for, whether we own and operate, or we lease or license or partner– you don’t get in if you don’t live to a brand standard

 

Charlie Melcher 

And flexible models, right? That’s the other thing that’s so unique. You’re not just leasing, you know, you you are creating and partnering.

 

Winston Fisher

Exactly right, we partner, we create, we allow other people to create, it’s that open source, we don’t have a lock on creativity, we don’t have a lock on storytelling, but we’re this platform that allows it to thrive. And and it’s it’s totally different than almost anybody else has done because so many people want to control it, we only ask or we demand that you push the envelope, right? But it’s this idea of something different. And of course, social media sharing and all of these things, but also just creative risk taking and then there’s a market people want to come and their kids are playing here, they’re playing golf, it’s a quieter space. I mean it, it all flows together, right? Because we’re not a one. We’re not a one silo experience. We’re a place of discovery and wonder overlaid with old experiences. And so now we have the stories that you know, like we have scavenger hunts that you can do and AR overlays. There’s just a lot happening.

 

Charlie Melcher 

Yeah. And do you feel that when a consumer or guest comes that they might be coming for one thing, but the other things are mutually supportive? Like you’re more likely to do multiple things, because they’re all aggregated here? Obviously, that was the thesis is it paying off?

 

 

Winston Fisher

Oh, 100%. The consumer loves bundles they are coming in, they’re there. They’re getting, you know, the hour off, they’re getting, you know, Illuminarium, they’re doing tickets to assign them Barcade they’re coming the average, you know, two to four hours. They appreciate that it’s different, that it’s not the same they’re looking for unique authentic is also something that they appreciate about area 15. So it’s everything we we set out to do. We get so big, you start getting unique visitors for the district. You can come and do two, three days now in the AREA15 district.

 

Charlie Melcher 

So who’s coming? Who’s the audience for AREA15?

 

Winston Fisher

You know, it’s pretty, it’s really psychographic. We’re getting a very broad base of people. The daytime and nighttime traffic is different 70% tourists 30%, local 30% repeat rate. Surprise, surprise. Our events drive a lot of locals and then they consume. We get locals, obviously, good family penetration in Las Vegas. But it’s like 16% or under 18. We’re the number one attraction in the country. I actually read that amazing. Yeah, it’s and that’s from them. I waited. Yeah. So how do we constantly stay relevant and keep traffic coming? And our corporate business is strong. And it’s you know, we actually have a full tenant buyout coming next week, where every tenant, that’s great, you know, again, we want everybody to make money. I mean, I, my, my goal was for everybody inside the space to be, I want it to be their most profitable location.

 

Charlie Melcher 

What do you think the expectation is for somebody coming? Are they coming, because it’s just very different, because it is completely different than other more traditional entertainment offerings on the Strip. I mean, and when I say coming, we should also acknowledge you are pulling people off of the strip, right, that there’s a lot of money, a lot of light bulbs, attractions to keep people you know, gambling and having a good time on the strip. And so you’re literally pulling them away, which, you know, is some unbelievable physics thing that you’re doing to overcome that gravity, but getting them to come in as it because they’re expecting something very different. Something literally out of the box, are they Is it because they’re looking for more interactive, immersive, participatory experiences.

 

Winston Fisher

So many people in Vegas I’ve seen over the years, they think they have to copy the strip to be successful. And we realize we couldn’t. So we built something. I remember actually saying to an executive like, Look, I can’t compete with you, you beat me every day. I’m never gonna sell $100,000 bottle service tables and have a Cirque du Soleil show, or whatever it is. So but it goes both ways. You can’t compete with me. We are not the strip. And that’s the whole point is we are different. We have a collection of amazing experiences, good food and beverage, really cool art, really cool programming that’s dynamic. People are showing up because they are looking for discovery. But then there’s also people coming because it’s date night, or bachelor party for axe throwing. We allow people to plug in for many different reasons. And that’s what’s fun. We eyes sort of constantly challenged people like how do we go bigger? How do we push the envelope like, I say, like what would PT Barnum do? You don’t win by playing it safe creatively. And I think that’s what a lot of companies do today. The world doesn’t want the same. Just do it different.

 

Charlie Melcher 

I do think that’s one of the maybe attributes of the brand is is that idea of being able to be out of the box thinkers to celebrate creativity to take risks to be flexible and adaptive. And that is not I think what they teach a traditional business schools or what’s traditionally rewarded in business, and you’ve already seen, I’m sure incredible return. I mean, if you just think about what you probably bought that real estate for square footage wise, to what a what you lease it at now.

 

Winston Fisher

I mean, it’s– yeah, I mean, the numbers are, are obviously much better. And we’re investing in the brand. I mean, we’re expanding in Vegas, I mean, there’s just the amount of– can’t really sort of say the amount of money we’re putting into the space is, is a lot. And so now thinking about the story universe, and really introducing people to wit, introducing the consumer to a guy, how do we get people to engage in the brand? Well past that when they leave, right? It’s not just about selling them another ticket, but it’s about the emotional connection. So that’s, that’s a really exciting next chapter for us.

 

Charlie Melcher 

I’m just thinking, Do you ever have a challenge though, when you’re building your brand, and you have a platform that supports other brands? I mean, Meow Wolf’s a great brand too…

 

Winston Fisher

Again, it’s not that we’re not trying to over shadow Meow Wolf’s brand or co-opt it. In fact, quite the opposite: we want their brand to thrive. They’ve got–they just opened up Dallas, super cool. Our brand is driving recognition and engagement and traffic to them and vice versa. Right? That’s, that’s that’s a healthy relationship. It’s a win– as I say, it’s a win-win.

 

Charlie Melcher 

Winston, who who have you put on notice with the success of AREA15? Who should be scared now for their business model?

 

Winston Fisher

I’m trying to describe AREA15 as well, we’re not a mall, we’re not an event center. We’re not a theme park. We’re not like– we’re almost like our own new category. So I think retail has tried to pivot this way. I mean, look at American dream of America. I think that we’re a warning and a warning that we’re going to we’re never going to compete with a casino. But you need to think deeper about the brand and how you cultivate that relationship and the purpose and so anybody who has physical needs to pay attention, I think digital also has to pay attention that in the app sense of physical, your brand will never truly have emotional connection and resonate the way you truly want it to. Like we weren’t built to fix malls. I was trying to build a 20th century model. We’re built for the 21st century. We’re built for AI. We’re built for the metaverse disruption. We’re built for individualization, spectator to participant.

 

Charlie Melcher 

It’s the venues that have passive experience for people to sit for two hours and do nothing but watch or listen, I think those are the ones that are really should be paying as much attention as possible to what you’re doing. And that just because you’re responding to human nature, desire, the people have to be in the story to be in their bodies to be with other people to being engaged. It’s also funny that you, you basically built a big box to enable people to have this sort of out of box experience out of box thinking, yeah, like, there is an irony there.

 

Winston Fisher

It will, because it still is a it’s a place. And then the campus is, as we say growing and we’re putting more stuff and we bought a 40 foot or excuse me a 50 foot fire truck from an auction in California, I guess I This fire truck. It’s insane. And we painted it every day, I really want to turn it into a limousine. I don’t know if we can might not be possible. But like, it’s just badass. We’ve got this 13 foot tall, like, there’s nobody that type of thing doesn’t exist, right? You really hit the road the cost if it was No, but it’s at the end of the day. It’s cool. It’s spectacle, right? It’s, but it helps give some context to how we describe it, right their structure. But it’s totally creative and different.

 

Charlie Melcher 

I know that Vince Kadlubeck from Meow Wolf talks about this, that the role of the artist or the creative person is to show people that there’s another way that they could live their lives, that they don’t have to live for predictability and safety within the confines of prefabbed boxes. And this sort of like our world is built around that this is I’m borrowing this from Vince from from my interview with him.

 

Winston Fisher

He’s one of the great thinkers of our– really just a great thinker and a great thinker of our industry. I mean, Vince is– I have the pleasure of working with him.

 

Charlie Melcher 

Yeah, when he describes how Meow Wolf like intentionally doesn’t do right angles, or makes you know, the risers and steps different than what’s code or they’re just intentionally every time making this statement to you that the world could be organized differently, and that you have the potential to be in effect, whatever you want to be like you can you can imagine yourself in your world. That’s the message and I think that AREA15 is sending that same message to people.

 

Winston Fisher

I hope so. I mean, it’s this idea that there is a different world, right? And I’d say, no skipping the record. But I think that’s probably a rudimentary way of describing the way Vince does it, that you are part of this world, there is this creation, and it’s real. And there’s an inspiration from that, that something can be done different, that something isn’t just another right angle. It’s not just another contemporary design. It’s not just another glass box, that there’s architecture, there’s design their story that is of fantasy, right, and that it gives you the ability to lose yourself. So having a place that gives you a authentic reprieve. People need a way to, to just be happy, happy and know that there’s a different world out there. And that world is full of wonder and excitement.

 

Charlie Melcher 

Well, that’s a world that I am looking forward to visiting as often as possible. And I hope that there’ll be more AREA15s– I hear, you might have bought some land in Florida…?

 

Winston Fisher

Florida is at work. We have a lot going on in Vegas; Florida, we have some stuff going on. I’m really excited that we’re launching our story quest, which is this sort of gamification of the space of AREA15. And all around discovering the backstory of area 50 And the secret organization that actually built it the mystic substance, and then having a graphic novel experience that people can start reading right where they will be sending out this graphic novel quarterly so people can start learning more about it’s not just a collection of these places, but there’s, there’s this story and people will plug into it. And then you can what gets really exciting is how the people start writing their own story. And we’re not there yet. But there’ll be things like AR overlays and numbers you can call so it’s not just reading a story and it’s really cool. The story is awesome, but it’s actually creates engagement that people can start plugging back back into what’s happening and and, and puzzle and problem solving and it’s all fun. But then eventually you can write yourself into the story, which is really exciting.

 

Charlie Melcher 

When does the graphic novel launch?

 

Winston Fisher

It’s September, October. We’re literally– physical design of, you know, most of its there but just creating the scavenger hunt.

 

Charlie Melcher 

I see a storyteller inside of real estate man.

 

Winston Fisher

Yes, yes, yes, yes. Oh, look, I this is my, this is my job. It is so much more than real estate today. But it’s exciting about what it’s becoming.

 

Charlie Melcher 

Well, thank you so much, Winston, it’s really a pleasure to spend time with you and for you to share some of your thinking and the origins and what’s coming up. And congratulations again, and can’t wait to spend more time with you in Vegas or wherever else.

 

Winston Fisher

Thank you for having me. Oh, it’s so much fun talking.

 

Charlie Melcher 

I’m Charlie Melcher, and this has been the Future of StoryTelling Podcast. Thanks for joining me. If you enjoyed the show, please consider leaving us a five star rating on your podcast platform of choice, as well as sharing it with your friends or colleagues. We really appreciate it. If you’d like to learn even more about innovative storytelling across disciplines, visit us online at fost.org. There you can subscribe to our free monthly newsletter, learn more about our annual membership community, and more. The FoST podcast is produced by Melcher Media, in collaboration with our friends and production partners, Charts & Leisure. I hope to see you again soon for another deep dive into the world of storytelling. Until then, please be safe. Stay strong and story on